J.R.(Host): Welcome to Galveston Unscripted! Today, we're taking a look into one of the most powerful symbols of American naval history, the Battleship Texas, the last surviving dreadnought in the world, a veteran of both world wars, and now she's right here in Galveston for restoration and a new chapter in her long life.I sit down with Kandace Trujillo Gilman. Vice President of Visitation and Education at the Battleship Texas Foundation. She shares a little bit of the battleship's history and the massive preservation efforts to keep her history alive for future generations. Let's get into how this century-old battleship survived two world wars, decades of weather and wear, and what it means for the Texas to be right here in Galveston.
Kandace:(Guest) I'm Kandace Trujillo Gilman. I am the VP of Visitation and Education at the Battleship Texas Foundation, so I'm in charge of educational programming and outreach events. So basically just spreading awareness and education, the history of the ship to everyone.
J.R.: Kandace, thank you so much for joining me here in the Galveston Unscripted studio to talk about the battleship Texas.I'm really excited to see the Texas here in Galveston and learn so much about its history, and then how, here in Galveston, the battleship Texas will be able to teach that history from the island. So I'm really excited about that.
Kandace: Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here and excited to talk about the ship, and I think being in Galveston has a special history, so bringing the ship here.It's just really awesome. So we're excited to have her here.
J.R.: Yeah, absolutely. It's wonderful to walk down right now to walk down to Pier 21 and be able to look out and see it right here at the Port of Galveston. It's really cool to see. So the Battleship Texas is the last surviving dreadnought. What is a dreadnought?
Kandace: So a dreadnought identifies the type of ships that were modeled off of the HMS Dreadnought, that was commissioned by the British Royal Navy in the early 1900s, and it's basically a ship that has all the big guns, right? So Texas has 10, 14-inch guns, so ships that are dreadnoughts, so they have the big guns, and that's their main armament, and that's the, all of them are the same size.And then also that they're very heavily armored, and that's what constitutes a dreadnought.
J.R.: One thing I wanna get you to talk about a little bit is the history of Texas. I know that's a crazy question. There's so much history there, but maybe like a brief overview.
Kandace: Okay. So she's a World War I, World War II battleship in World War II; she was in five major battles, the biggies that you probably heard of in some other ones.
So she was at Operation Torch in North Africa. She was at the invasion of D-Day, so in Normandy. So she was firing at Omaha Beach in Pointe du Hoc. She was at the invasion of Southern France, and then Iwo Jima and Okinawa. So, a lot of the major amphibious landings of World War II.
J.R.: What year was she built?
Kandace: So she was commissioned in 1914, so that's when she's completely finished and ready to be in the Navy.
J.R.: I know after she was done being in service. She was in Houston for a long time.
Kandace: So she was decommissioned and part of the Texas Navy. Yeah, in 1948. So, on April 21st, a lot of people who are familiar with Texas history will know the significance of that date, April 21st. Absolutely. Yeah. So obviously, the Battle of San Jacinto. So she was there at San Jacinto in Houston or LaPorte since 1948, so almost 80 years being a part of her history there at the Battlegrounds.
J.R.: So you mentioned she's not the oldest museum ship. But she's one of the first,
Kandace: She's not the oldest. Olympia is older, but she is the first permanent museum ship. So before that, there was the USS Oregon, and the Navy had control, but it wasn't a permanent thing. And eventually she, that ship was scrapped. But Texas was the first permanent one, actually, before the war was even over in World War II. They were letters going back and forth and saying, How can Texas save her namesake? Ship. So they were going back and forth, and basically, I think a lot of, especially the older people of Texas, remember saving their pennies in nickels and dimes to support the ship coming. So they brought the ship, obviously, to San Jacinto, and again, the first permanent ship, and that was all thanks to the state of Texas, which obviously, like I mentioned earlier, still owns the ship.
J.R.: And what was the process of bringing her to Galveston? I know that's like a crazy story.
Kandace: Do you mean for repairs?
J.R.: Yeah. Well, yeah, for repairs, and then like how she ended up in Galveston in the first place.
Kandace: As far as for the repairs. So at, while she was at Sun Justino, she was having a lot of issues with leaking, mainly with her torpedo blisters, which were added in the 1920s as the ship's major defense against torpedoes.And those were leaking pretty much. We have a record since the forties, so I always like to say, had an aftermarket on your car. You add something a little later, it's not quite as good as if you would've started it at the beginning, but those were leaking. We had, I think, over 50 pumps pumping. All the time, constantly over 2000 gallons of water a minute, at probably the worst. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's a scary thought. I think it's a small swimming pool and constant, and if we had issues with electricity, that caused issues. So I think a lot of people would see that on the news of the ships. Listing again 'cause a pump didn't work or there was something, an issue, or we needed another patch.So we had a company, Valkor Energy Services, who have been our project management team, our engineering team, and they came up with the idea of, okay, we need to move the ship and get her to dry dock. And um, so they were reaching out, trying to figure out the best way to do that. Obviously with safety in mind first and is the first thing, obviously we want it to do it safely.
We want the ship to be intact. And the only way to do that, obviously, was to take her to a dry dock facility, and then we needed a floating dry dock. So, before this whole process, there wasn't a facility in Texas that could handle the ship. She shaped a little bit differently, a big load. So she can't, so we couldn't go elsewhere.
So finally, Resolve, which is our, I hate to say it, salvage company. Yeah, 'cause that's what it had to be. You have a back ride of maritime. So, Resolve, they were like, we have a floating dry dock that was in The Bahamas that was damaged, and it was salvaged at this point. You could fix it, or whoever could fix it up, and it could be perfect for the ship. Gulf Copper Shipyard, right here in Galveston, purchased a dry dock that was able to make the repairs, and they were able to bring that dry dock to Galveston, which was really interesting to see. I don't know if you saw the big one. I did the big tugboat coming with the, the floating dry dock, and then they were able to repair, fix it up, and then of course we were able to bring the ship, but that was also more preparation for the ship itself.So they actually sprayed foam into the torpedo blisters to fill the void if there's no place for water to go. It can't come into the ship,
J.R.: Right?
Kandace: So we're like, okay, we're gonna put the foam. And that obviously was very costly, very expensive, and very time-consuming. So, Resolve was here, and of course, it was happening during COVID.And they were doing all this stuff. It was really hot in those tanks, so it was really difficult work, but they were able to do that. And then when we moved the ship in August of 2022, they were, they had put pumps in there just in case, but it was not pumping out more water.Then, when we were at San Jacinto, because of all of the preparations. But we were ready for it just in case, obviously. 'cause we're gonna be in the ship channel. You, they closed the ship channel, obviously, we don't wanna do anything so that the ship channel shut down 'cause that's such a big important part of our city and to the country, actually. Everything about that was obviously safety and then it was just really cool to see the ship floating down. And then some of my colleagues were there on the ship, and then I was running around trying to get, we had a live stream. So, I made sure that people could see it from different places. And of course we had talked to the media and let the people of Texas if they wanted to come and see the ship moving a good spot. So, like, the Texas City Dike was a good spot, Seawolf Park was another excellent place because you got to see the ship turn, go into the Galveston ship channel, letting them know. And so that was a really great process. And so that's getting the ship to Gulf Copper here for repairs. And then, as far as getting Galveston as the choice for her new home port at San Jacinto, she was receiving 80 to 100 thousand visitors a year.T hat was not enough to sustain her for her preventative maintenance. So something that we learned throughout this whole restoration process is a lot of the things that we're dealing with, if they would've been fixed a long time ago, we wouldn't have had the issue. And that's not placing, they didn't have the money to do it then, of course.Yeah. And also, how you learn this is, Texas has always been, since it's been a museum ship for so long, a lot of the other ships are like, okay, what did you do and what did you learn? And then we like to say that we tell people, Do this. It is important. Do it now before we have this issue. So it, with that 80 to a hundred thousand visitors, it did not give us enough money to.
To have that preventative maintenance or have that endowment to be able to take her for more repairs. We had done a study with Deloitte and they had looked at Galveston, and this is not any location in Galveston. Just Galveston. And they said that we would get about 250,000 visitors a year. And this was.
Way back before the big boom of y'all's visitation. Right. 'cause that's got, there's so many more people coming to G and it was wonderful.
J.R.: Sees 8 million visitors a year now.
Kandace: See, that's amazing. So this was done before that, I think it was, I think it was 5 million when this study was done. So 250,000 visitors.
And with that we can have a preventative maintenance program. We can put money aside so that when she goes to dry dock in the future, it's little things and not. The major repairs that we had to do this time. For example, the Battleship New Jersey just went to dry dock, and they just did painting in a little bit of things.
And that's because they had that, obviously, she's a much newer ship, something like that's what we wanna do, right? And just be like, okay, we're gonna go do that. Uh, we have that money and, but then also obviously Galveston has a history with the ship and that's not saying that San Jacinto doesn't. They had, we had.
Wonderful history at San Jacinto, but, uh, Galveston actually she was here in Galveston and that's where they presented her silver service. So we have great photos of that. And then also photos of, 'cause there is a previous Battleship Texas that was commissioned in 1895 and that that ship also has a silver service.
And we have great photos of them presenting that at, in front of old Galveston Ball High School.
J.R.: Oh wow.
Kandace: Silver service. So way back when we were fancy, but we would have presentations so they would eat on the silver plates. The silver trays. The silver silverware. Right. So they wouldn't have dignitaries or when the admiral or whoever they would be able to eat there.
On the Silver Service. Gotcha. The 1895 Silver Service is very ornate based on the time. And then the 1914 Texas's Silver Service is very clean, clean line. So like how the history of it so has it changes. So that's pretty cool. So it's just really awesome about that. And then it, it's just really nice to see the ship was here and the only time the ship was in Texas before she was brought back here to be her final home, her final resting place.
J.R.: Right. One thing that you mentioned I'm really interested in is. That of these other museum ship organizations when they're trying to do preservation or repairs. They call y'all, they call the Battleship Texas FoundationKandace: and we all work together. Yes. Right. So there's an organization called hessa, historic Naval Ships Association, and we all get together and we're in constant communication and we have conferences and what's working for y'all or what didn't work, but it might work for you because you're a different ship.It's all different. Sizes, so a submarine to an aircraft carrier, and we, they just had a, the last conference was just in late September in Buffalo, so at Buffalo Naval Park where they have the Sullivans, the Little Rock and the Croaker. And then the Sullivans, of course, had their issues with. Water coming in and they're getting ready to go to dry dock.
That's very important. And then we had New Jersey go into dry dock and some submarines go into dry dock. USS kid, we have a great relationship with them and they're out of Baton Rouge and we're actually working on their anti-aircraft guns.
J.R.: Oh no.
Kandace: So our maintenance team, very excellent. They. I don't know how they do it.They, there's no manual for these things that they're doing, and it's truly amazing. And so they'd been working on our 40 millimeter anti-aircraft gun, so to shoot down enemy airplanes that was on the ship, one of them. And they were doing it and doing it, and then the people at the kid were like, oh, we have some, we got some money from the state of Louisiana.Y'all know what you're doing. Would y'all please help us out and work on our guns while we're in dry dock? So that they're working on those. Obviously we're still working on our guns and we have volunteers that are doing great work with those as well. But yes, we, they come to, especially Travis Davis, our COO and Vice P of ship operations.He has great, he's just been with the ship, he was with Texas Parks and Wildlife before, so he has a great knowledge and he's very active in Hessa, so they look to us, we're not. The ship to look to. But we do have that history 'cause we are on the older side. And then even with our dry dock tours that we were able to host here at Gulf Copper, New Jersey came and they saw how, 'cause it had never been done before.Mm-hmm. At least not to our knowledge. And so New Jersey came and said, how are y'all doing it? We would love to too. Because it did become not only a true once in a life opportunity to see a ship out of the water, but a good fundraising opportunity for us. And we had people come from. Japan, New Zealand, Australia, not specifically to come to see, come to the United States to see Texas, but they were in the United States and they made a point to come see the ship and they saw what we were doing and how great it was for us, as well as the fundraiser and. They were able to to do that in New Jersey and they were able to make additional funds so that they were able to stay in dry dock longer. And so it's just really great that we're able to say that yes, it can be done safely. Of course and they were use able to be like, look, they did it in Texas and they had no issues.Can we do it here?
J.R.: Yeah. I really like this because it's one of these kind of overlook things that you don't really think about when it comes to preservation or maintenance, is that a lot of these things have never been done before, especially with a ship this age. So to be able to be the trailblazer there right is also another huge wow factor.
Kandace: Either that or nobody remembers how they did it back then,
J.R.: right? Yeah. There's nobody really around who
Kandace: didn't have the, the items that they had, right? 'cause they did it all the time. So for example, on the five inch guns, we had to take them off the ship to get them repaired. And I don't know if you've seen they're on the ship the little way that they had to get those big, massive guns that weigh 26,000 pounds through this little window with a crane.
J.R.: A little bit of wiggle room, just a little bit.
Kandace: just a little bit in, um, in a five-inch gun was the ship's secondary battery, so her second biggest gun on the ship, and they were, that was able to fire a five-inch diameter projectile about seven to nine miles away.
J.R.: I cannot wait to tour it to go check it out whenever it is, and its final location, which I know that's been confirmed.
Kandace: She'll be up here 15 right here in Galveston. So first of all, before we could get the ship there, dredging needs to happen. So for dredging is so the ship is drafts a certain amount of feet. So she goes deep in the water, and right now, Pier 15 isn't quite deep enough. Just a little, just need to dredge just a little bit.
Basically, they'll remove mud. And so that allows the ship to go there. And then, so obviously, safety is very important to us. So we will have engineering done for monopiles, which are the things that keep the ship in place for safety. So that needs to be done. And then once the ship goes in there, we'll have a gangway, of course, and then we will have ticketing.
So, a small place for ticketing. For people to purchase all of that stuff. And then hopefully it is in our plan to eventually have a museum building. So right now all of that stuff has to happen first, and then get the ship there and get her open, and then hopefully be a part of the strategic master plan of the Galveston Wharves Board, which obviously has the ship, I would like to say, as a focus of that whole area that they're developing.
J.R.: It's amazing to see the new cruise terminal. Pop up right there. Yes. You're gonna be literally right next to one of the newest cruise terminals in Galveston.
Kandace: Correct.
J.R.: Which is amazing
Kandace: to see. No, absolutely. And then all of the other stuff, the retail space, and all of that stuff, too. People are gonna be walking around and we hopefully be like, oh my gosh, look at that cool ship.Let's go on her.
J.R.: Right, of course.
Kandace: And that's what we want. Or I have some time. I have, my cruise hasn't boarded yet. Let's go on the ship.
J.R.: Or when they get off, they get off the ship. So I know, hopefully you're not. In too much of a hurry to go home, even.
Kandace: Right. I think Galveston's done a really good job planning about doing the traffic parking, and they're really looking into that and making it the best for everyone to come.So we're really happy with what they were doing, including us, and we're just really excited.
J.R.: I could see it being a massive draw. Of course, it was already a massive draw at Jacinto, but I being a draw while it's embedded in this Galveston port ecosystem, that's what I'm really looking forward to.
Kandace: Yes.
J.R.: So I kinda want to get into a little bit of the major maintenance that has been done over the past couple of years. Obviously, it was in dry dock for a while, right? And now it's sitting in the water, which is amazing to see right across the way, and a little bit of maintenance and what's being done before she is put wherever she's put here in Galveston.
Kandace: Right. But yeah, so she was back in the water, which was. Really exciting, obviously, to see. So she started off at Pier D in Gulf Copper, and that's where they could still have the heavy cranes. So that's when we moved the five-inch guns off, so those could be repaired, and then they would work on the deck. So the deck is a major restoration project at a very labor-intensive and very expensive just because of the major labor cost and the deck's original
condition. So this is something that we liked. She had a pine decking originally. So most people, when you think of World War II, battleship, you think the teak deck.So no, Texas never had a teak deck. She did have teak in certain areas, for example, underneath some of the gun mounts, things like that. But she always had a pine deck, long leaf, yellow pine, to be specific. So it was still a hardwood. That deck, we have record of it, of having, they needed rip to be repaired, so they put some Douglas Fir there for a while.
So basically, whatever they had at the shipyard, they would put on. And so when they brought her here to 48, it was in rough shape. So eventually they were like, okay, we're gonna put concrete. It did not work. Yeah, exactly.
J.R.: Oh my God.
Kandace: So the ship had concrete decking and so because of the concrete, and that led to a lot of other issues.So were the water leakage issues into the ship, all of that. And then so they, when she was here last time in dry dock, when it was still Todd Shipyard in late eighties, early nineties, they put another deck on top. So that's the deck that you see when if you were to visit at San Jacinto. Constant repair, it was issues with that. 'Cause they did it the best way that they could, but also, cost is an issue. So then we are looking at this deck, and then of course we had all of the work that had happened to get the ship here. So there was constant machinery on the deck, which caused even more issues with the deck.
We made it a priority, and it will be replaced. I don't wanna say the correct way, but the most historic way. Right. So the big four by fours, and we have excellent pictures of that whole process of using oakum, and again, very labor-intensive, right? So the deck will be complete. So we're really excited about that.
And it'll be painted to measure 22, so what she's supposed to be. And then, so that's the major project. And then you people that have probably been watching it. We removed her fore top so that could be repaired and looked at. Another thing that we really wanted to focus on was to make sure that all of the water is draining appropriately.
J.R.: Right?
Kandace: So that was another really major thing at San Jacinto, is that it, the water wasn't draining, right? So she was. Pockets of water. And that was causing deterioration, even rainwater, causing deterioration. Yeah. So we made sure that everything is running properly, flowing off the ship properly.So there is no, none of that water. So that, again, is very important. And then now recently we're looking into doing the inside of the ship. Oh, cleaning it up. Of course, her being open to the elements at the bottom caused a lot of issues inside. We're gonna be cleaning. Repainting all the inside, as well as hopefully doing public restrooms on the ship.She's never had those before. At San Jacinto, they were outside. Also, Texas Parks and Wildlife has been a great partner with us, so they still own the ship. So the state of Texas still owns the ship. We're just partnered with them, and they have a great curatorial department. So they've been working with us.We're reupholstering chairs, doing the little things as well to make the ship come alive and how she would've been like, and that's our goal even with interpretation is. Make sure that the ship seems like the sailors just walked off, and this is a ship in the spring of 1945
J.R.: When she's at Pier 15. What are gonna be some of the things that the Battleship Texas has to offer besides going and visiting the ship, walking around, and exploring the wonderful history of the Battleship Texas?
Kandace: So we really wanted to bring a lot of different programming and the same programming that she had at San Jacinto. So overnight programs, so kids come spend the night on the ship. That's one of my favorites. And that's actually how I got my start on the ship, is running the overnight program, field trips.
So we would love to have as many school children as we can to be on the ship and learn, uh, guided tours. So that's something that we wanna provide more of. While they're at San Jacinto, they didn't really offer that, so that's something that we wanna offer a little bit more, as well as the more.
Specialized touring. So, engineering tours, gunnery tours, maybe focusing on Normandy tours. Right? So learn about her specific involvement in Normandy, so that these more specialized tours, people can learn about the history. And then the, the crew, and then the items that the ship has.
J.R.: Will she be open for any special events or anything like that?
Kandace: Oh, yes, absolutely. You could rent the ship. For weddings or any kind of fundraising event or any kind of corporate events that you might have that will be a part of it. And especially as we eventually get a museum building, we'll have just more opportunities for that.
J.R.: Kandace, thank you so much for coming in today.I really appreciate it, and I'm really excited to have the Battleship of Texas here in Galveston. Yeah. And I cannot wait to see what happens whenever that master plan really comes together.
Kandace: Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. I love talking about the ship to everyone.
J.R.: Of course. So thanks. Of course.Thank you. Yeah.
